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$350 fine for lost pet signs?

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JKaur View Drop Down
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    Posted: April-14-2011 at 2:55pm
http://tracypress.com/bookmark/12793346

MOUNTAIN HOUSE — Anyone who hangs a sign in a public right-of-way area may be subject to a fine if the board of directors decides to pass a new sign ordinance that’s now under review.

The ordinance would fine anyone who has posted a sign, such as one for a garage sale or a lost dog, near the public right-of-way $350 each day after it remains posted past a 10-day grace period.

Read more: Tracy Press - News, events, classifieds and businesses in Tracy, Calif.


seriously?  there's nothing more pressing in mountain house than worrying about lost pet and garage sale signs?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mstinat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 3:07pm
$350/day per sign!!!!! That's unreal!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angad B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 3:21pm
Well if people were not so careless.  Look at the condition of many street poles.
If people would post them and left no sign of the sign be there, we wouldn't get to this point.

I would also like to see the board enforcing other Master Restriction codes... such as keeping front yards free of weeds and trimmed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaitNBryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Angad B Angad B wrote:

I would also like to see the board enforcing other Master Restriction codes... such as keeping front yards free of weeds and trimmed.
That one is definitely NOT enforced Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 3:27pm
It seems like a lot, but there is a 10 day grace period.  Get out there and take down your signs you lazy flips!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaitNBryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 3:29pm
hahah that makes a HUGE difference...no reason a garage sale sign should be up for 10 days
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote btra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 3:33pm

$350/day seems excessive to me.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by btra btra wrote:


$350/day seems excessive to me.




don't forget, it's $350 per day per sign.  so if your kid puts up lost pet signs, you better get out there and find all of them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaitNBryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 3:35pm
its definitely excessive....I think A fine isn't unreasonable with a 10 day grace period.....but 350/day/sign is a bit nuts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote btra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by JKaur JKaur wrote:

Originally posted by btra btra wrote:


$350/day seems excessive to me.




don't forget, it's $350 per day per sign.  so if your kid puts up lost pet signs, you better get out there and find all of them!


Yep.  Or imagine some poor schlub who takes his family on vacation for 10 days after the kids put 3 signs up.  Having that be a $10k mistake is not commensurate with the "crime", to say the least.

And if somebody wants to say "well we wouldn't actually levy the full amount in that case" - to that I would say: don't enact an ordinance that you don't intend to enforce as written.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Su Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 4:32pm
Nothing has been decided except that it will be on the agenda next month to be discussed and possibly voted on.  The item on the agenda yesterday simply introduced the ordinance and there were some discussions but I dont think the board agrees on all the details.

Again, my posts only represents my opinion as a single board member, not the entire board.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Judie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 5:10pm
Wow cdog, I actually agree with you on this one!  Just like most things a law and fine like this would never be drawn up if everyone did what they were supposed to do.  Namely, clean up after themselves.  Thank you board members!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dandro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 5:31pm
There is probably a max penalty amount in a line item somewhere....

So who's gonna be the first to put up a lost "C-Dog" poster???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonathanR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 5:35pm
This is one of our pet peeves, if a $350 fine per sign will get people to stop being lazy and take down their signs we support it 100%!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 6:17pm
I'd recommend watching the board discussion on the topic.
This one topic lasted an hour.
Lots of issues were discussed including all of the things already said here.
This topic started at Section 3 at 1 hour and 27 min.


First,
The 10 day grace period starts with a written notice.
The notice must identify where the sign was put up.
The example of a child putting up a bunch of signs would require the CSD give the perpatrator a notice for each sign.  Once the notice is received, there would be 10 days before any fine could be assessed.

Part of the problem is the State law is pretty specific about what we a can and cannot do.
We've not allowed to stray too much from what the state allows which is the $350 per day per offense.  the law says $350, not up to $350.  Right now, it's illegal to post the signs, but the CSD has no real recourse because no fine  or penalty is authorized.  It's akin to getting speeding ticket with no fine or penalty.

I've suggested that the CSD be required to remove the sign on day 11 once one day worth of fine has been assessed.  The revenue from the fine would cover the cost of removal and make it impossible to accrue multi day fines.

We'll be discussing it further at our next meeting.
Any time a fine is considered, there will be people for and against.
Our job is to come up with a fair compromise that protects the public property and yet is not overly or unfairly punitive.

The whole board seemed to be in agreement.  
This has nothing to do with revenue, and every thing having to do with try within our powers to curb the bad behavior.  We'd all be just as happy to never have to collect the fine.

Like Andy, my posts only represents my opinion as a single board member, not the entire board.


Edited by Jim - April-14-2011 at 6:22pm
Opinions and information provided by me are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the board or districts point of view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKaur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 6:21pm
i had no idea that posting signs was illegal.  how about just spreading the word about the law and encouraging mountain house residents to remove any signs they see? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 6:27pm
One of my favorite events in this town is the community garage sale.
 I guess on that day we will have the biggest crime spree ever!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by JKaur JKaur wrote:

i had no idea that posting signs was illegal.  how about just spreading the word about the law and encouraging mountain house residents to remove any signs they see? 


Again that was discussed as well.
Certainly part of any action would have to include an awareness campaign.

Case in point, the Builders are certainly aware of what the rules say.
Sill when we did our Girl scout clean up, we found staked signs all up and down central parkway.
As thing stand, we can ask that the signs be removed, but if the builder declines to do so, there's no real recourse.  Staff will eventually go out and pull the signs, but that cost the community money.  It's a never ending battle. We're trying to come up with a solution that gives staff more tools to deal with the problem.  Unfortunately our options are severely limited.

Last year we got bombed by someone putting out 20 to 30 yellow signs all over town advertising affordable loan work out programs.  It took a bunch of forum volunteers several days to pull all the signs.  Eventually they gave up because we were pulling them down as fast as they were going up.


Edited by Jim - April-14-2011 at 6:45pm
Opinions and information provided by me are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the board or districts point of view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by SteveB SteveB wrote:

One of my favorite events in this town is the community garage sale.
I guess on that day we will have the biggest crime spree ever!

I've alway gone around the next day to pull signs so as not to make the event a problem.
Even though I clearly state the rules on the organizing page, people frequently ignore the law.

Staff knows we're going to have sales anyway.
They figure it's better to get them out of the way all in one day so that cleaning up afterward is a one time affair.  It's just like raking leaves better they fall all at once so that you only have to rake once.
Opinions and information provided by me are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the board or districts point of view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Celeste Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-14-2011 at 6:53pm
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